The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread... edited Dec. 14

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eLMsm
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The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread... edited Dec. 14

Post by eLMsm »

Hi Steve Ronin,
I know you told William Tuckness to start a new thread, but for my own personal reading, I decided to continue this topic because: 1, it’s on The Roundtable’s webpage 1 (no pun intended) ; 2, I didn’t see any point to starting a new Zellbrigen topic (again, no pun intended) ; 3, I have a question about OP; 4, I have ideas for new Zellbrigen rules; and 5, the BTers, of previous replies, seem experienced and/or knowledged of Zellbrigen, and so I thought I could get replies quicker if your website emailed them a notification that I had replied to Zellbrigen topic. Anyways, friends, here’s my questions about batchalls and Zellbrigen; thanks for any beneficial replies.

A. I am currently Gamemastering a BattleTech game of lighter Inner Sphere 3000 Era ‘Mechs and heavier Inner Sphere 3000 Era vs. Clan 3050 or more Era Turkina ‘Mechs.  All Inner Sphere ‘Mechs are custom ‘Mechs. We are using Total Warfare rules, some Tactical Operations rules, some Strategic Operations rules, Zellbrigen rules, and some Interstellar Operations rules of Primitive technologies.  The Inner Sphere players have positioned their heavier ‘Mechs between their lighter ‘Mechs and the Turkina ‘Mechs. The Inner Sphere players have challenged via Zellbrigen batchall the Clan players: first the lighter Inner Sphere ‘Mechs fight the Turkina, then the heavier Inner Sphere ‘Mechs fight the Turkinas.

Here’s the confusing part: the standing heavier Inner Sphere ‘Mechs have been getting accidentally hit by weapons shots from the Clan ‘Mechs because of the Tactical Operations Missed Shots rules since the Clan MechWarriors (each having Gunnery of zero and pulse lasers and targeting computer per each Clan ‘Mech of which each of these Clan ‘Mechs is called Turkina) were trying to be attacking via their sent pulse laser shots to the lighter Inner Sphere units.  And since the Clan MechWarriors have inadvertently attacked the heavier ‘Mechs, the Clan MechWarriors appear to be violating the rules for Zellbrigen.  So, the heavier Inner Sphere ‘Mechs have now been counterattacking the Turkina ‘Mechs.  And the lighter ‘Mechs have been staying at extreme ranges, of the Turkina pulse lasers, while each lighter ‘Mech is moving both behind a different Heavy Woods Hex and adjacently into a different Heavy Woods Hex that is each in a different Level -1 Sinkhole Hex (to-hit is like +14 when a Turkina ‘Mech is attacking a lighter ‘Mech in this battle) .  

So the Turkina ‘Mechs are now trying to destroy the Heavy Woods Hexes, but sometimes some of the lighter Inner Sphere ‘Mechs at Gunnery 0 use LRMs vectored indirectly over a Heavy Woods Hex at extreme ranges to called shot hit the Turkina ‘Mechs at to-hit of +12 (sometimes their heads of some of those called shots, and remember these called shots are generally aimed but they’re not specifically aimed) while having LOS to said Turkina ‘Mechs; and some of the Lighter ‘Mechs have SRTs and TC-SRMs. There is a multiple terrain feature of wide river of Rapids Mud Rough Rubble Depth 9 Water Hexes between the Turkina ‘Mechs and the heavier Inner Sphere ‘Mechs.  The Clan Turkina ‘Mechs are not retreating from this battle since Clan Honor prohibits them from retreating from units made from I think pre 3025 Inner Sphere Era technology.  What should I tell the Inner Sphere players and Clan players?

B. During a Trial of Annihilation, is a Unit, that is “annihilating” via doing that Unit’s attack(s) , allowed to do those attack(s) via a Targeting Computer to attack a ‘Mech’s Head? Why or why not?

C. What are the Zellbrigen rules for units and structures not mentioned in Total Warfare rules for Zellbrigen?

D. What are the rules for units and/or structures not involved in a batchall, of which those units and/or structures are before, during, and/or after said batchall like they’re civilians ,and/or non-combatants and/or pacifists including if they get accidentally hit like the heavy ‘Mechs discussed in A above?

E. Annihilation is defined as matter & antimatter cancelling each other. Does antimatter ammunition exist in BT? If so, then what book(s) has rule(s) for antimatter ammunition?

F. May Woods Hex(es) and/or Jungle Hex(es) be attacked? They are immobile superpacifistic life forms. In the USA, attacking a tree in a National Forest can get a hubeing imprisoned.

G. How do units and structures know if a friendly or unfriendly ‘Mech’s Head was not specifically targeted via a Targeting Computer if weapon(s) , that are connected to said Targeting Computer, hit(s) said ‘Mech Head without aiming specifically at said ‘Mech’s Head? The OP says that a ‘Mech’s Head may not be specifically targeted.

H. If a unit is retreating, and is moving out of LOS, then does it still get one or more dezgra points?

As for my ideas for new Zellbrigen rules:

Specifically and/or generally targeting, the bag(s) of any Airship(s) and/or rotor(s) of any flying Unit(s) , is strictly prohibited.

Intentionally causing a Unit to fall into liquid magma is strictly prohibited.

Neither capital ammunition nor subcapital ammunition nor lethal chemical ammunition, except for fragmentation ammunition and/or fletchette ammunition and/or less lethal ammunition, may be used against conventional infantry.

Infantry, that is (or are) retreating and/or surrendering, is not and/or are not to be attacked.

Deployable intentionally explodable item(s) , that have indiscriminate effect(s) , such as landmine(s) and/or cluster bomb(s) , is and/or are prohibited.

Usage(s) of lethal carnivorous animal(s) , for attacking, is and/or are prohibited.

Any ‘Mech(s) , that is (or are) surrendering while not intentionally moving nor attacking, shall not be attacked.

If a ‘Mech’s only ranged weapon(s) is (or are) held by its Hand Actuator(s) , then it may deduct a maximum of five dezgra points of any or all of them at MechWarrior’s discretion (but no less than a minimum of zero dezgra points) , of that ‘Mech she or he operates.

If a unit’s classification name and/or a structure’s classification name is (or are) commonly illegal lethally violent threatenal word(s), then any dezgra point(s) , that said unit get(s) , is (or are) doubled, and then multiplied by total quantity of said threatenal word(s) of that Unit’s and/or that structure’s classification name.

Any unit or structure, that uses one or more fission engines, must display an easily visible directly proportionally sized radioactivity danger symbol on the outer parts of each of its locations excluding any rotor(s) it has.
Last edited by eLMsm on Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.
When do I “retreat” ? Only when I want to re+treat myself to eating cookies here in VT of USA. Here in VT, outside temperatures can get very cold; I suppose my miniatures won’t get overheated, ha ha.

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Re: The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread...

Post by Steve Ronin »

I warned folks in 2014 about raising the dead.
So this time I've split the topic and created a new thread.

Discussion may commence.

...and...

I'll admit: I'm a dirty Inner Sphere merc. I don't recall ever using or playing Zel rules. sorry.
My best resource at this time would be to point a player group to the Official Clan Chatterweb:
https://bg.battletech.com/forums/clan-chatterweb/
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Re: The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread...

Post by eLMsm »

Well, probably best that you split zellbrigen topic so that my “reply” became a new topic so that BT Writers will read it, ha ha. Like I was saying earlier, my guardian doesn’t allow me to register at commercial websites. Maybe my friend Bill Wilson could register at BG.BattleTech.com/Forums and post links to my topics for me. Now edited update: Bill has said he’s not going to register at those forums because he doesn’t want to reveal some of his personal information, but he said he’d register at Mordel.net and ask members there, that are registered at Mordel.net, to post links at BG.BattleTech.com/forums to my topics at BTU Roundtable Forums for me.
When do I “retreat” ? Only when I want to re+treat myself to eating cookies here in VT of USA. Here in VT, outside temperatures can get very cold; I suppose my miniatures won’t get overheated, ha ha.

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Re: The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread...

Post by Steve Ronin »

i will reach out to one of the Clanner "experts" on the official site & ask him to take a look here.
that is the best I can do.
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eLMsm
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Re: The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread...

Post by eLMsm »

Thank you so much Steve Ronin! As you’ll notice on The BattleTech Roundtable Forum, I’ve got many topics and some replies of rules that could be good official rules.
When do I “retreat” ? Only when I want to re+treat myself to eating cookies here in VT of USA. Here in VT, outside temperatures can get very cold; I suppose my miniatures won’t get overheated, ha ha.

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Re: The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread... edited Dec. 14

Post by eLMsm »

Greetings Steve Ronin, all players of that Battle A, that I communicated about above, have decided to use the targeting methods, that I talked about in this very more recent topic, to lower those to-hit Numbers:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19008
When do I “retreat” ? Only when I want to re+treat myself to eating cookies here in VT of USA. Here in VT, outside temperatures can get very cold; I suppose my miniatures won’t get overheated, ha ha.

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Re: The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread... edited Dec. 14

Post by eLMsm »

Any combat vehicle, that is involved in Zellbrigen, shall be totally and completely inspected on field before Zellbrigen action(s) begin(s) for quantity of character(s) that is (or are) going to be in said combat vehicle.
Last edited by eLMsm on Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
When do I “retreat” ? Only when I want to re+treat myself to eating cookies here in VT of USA. Here in VT, outside temperatures can get very cold; I suppose my miniatures won’t get overheated, ha ha.

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Re: The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread... edited Dec. 14

Post by Steve Ronin »

makes sense for any soldier to inspect their equipment before heading into battle.

Word is, Roman centurions were rough on legionaries that didn't have a sharpened gladius and polished armor.
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Re: The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread... edited Dec. 14

Post by eLMsm »

I was referring to affiliation(s) inspecting opposing unit(s) , not necessarily respectively, to make sure said Character(s) , of said unit(s) , are ready for Zellbrigen.
When do I “retreat” ? Only when I want to re+treat myself to eating cookies here in VT of USA. Here in VT, outside temperatures can get very cold; I suppose my miniatures won’t get overheated, ha ha.

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Re: The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread... edited Dec. 14

Post by Steve Ronin »

not mentioned in canon.
generally, you can announce you're bidding "Charlie Lance of 3rd Company, Gold Battalion of BTU Regiment", which is a medium striker lance.
If pressed, you can inform your opponent that the lance comprises of two Phoenix Hawks, a Dervish and a Enforcer.
You could even name the Mechwarriors by rank.

It is also canon that it is not required to inform your enemy that all the Mechs are SLDF Royals with a smattering of Clan built weaponry, nor that all the pilots are Elite Aces with 30 Mech kills between them.
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Re: The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread... edited Dec. 14

Post by eLMsm »

The Clans do want to be informed of what and whom the forces are going to be used; so the Clans would know if Inner Sphere or Periphery are going to use Clanliketech and/or Character(s) of unit(s) including combat vehicle(s) not necessarily respectively.
When do I “retreat” ? Only when I want to re+treat myself to eating cookies here in VT of USA. Here in VT, outside temperatures can get very cold; I suppose my miniatures won’t get overheated, ha ha.

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Re: The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread... edited Dec. 14

Post by Steve Ronin »

According to canon, they wouldn't know unless the Spheroid got stupid and told them.

Per canon, the Clanners' "We are Superior to ALL" attitude puts them in a position of "We don't care what you bring... We will be victorious because we are superior."

That attitude is the Clans' Achilles heel.
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Re: The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread... edited Dec. 14

Post by eLMsm »

Casteocratic
Loud and/or Lifeless
Arrogant
Narcissistic
Now
Egocentric
Rigid
Superiorly

are them?
When do I “retreat” ? Only when I want to re+treat myself to eating cookies here in VT of USA. Here in VT, outside temperatures can get very cold; I suppose my miniatures won’t get overheated, ha ha.

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Re: The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread... edited Dec. 14

Post by Steve Ronin »

Clanners are still human beings.
Yes, enhanced with genetic tinkering, but still humans.
thus, they are susceptible to all those traits.

but as a Military Organism, they have a trait of Vastly Underestimating their foes.
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Re: The 2020 ZELLBRINGEN DEFINED thread... edited Dec. 14

Post by Awe3423 »

Steve Ronin wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:13 pm
Clanners are still human beings.
Yes, enhanced with genetic tinkering, but still humans.
thus, they are susceptible to all those traits.

but as a Military Organism, they have a trait of Vastly Underestimating their foes.
This is an amazing clan, but their attitude is the Clans' Achilles heel. El Monte Customs I recommend this company